Should I watch Road to Guantanamo?

see it if you want to. it's not likely to change your mind anyway.

hunger strikes are a pretty common nonviolent resistance technique, among both prisoners of war and other resistance groups. ghandi of course was famous for this. at least they aren't attacking the guards again. Either way, if they are really prisoners of war they should be afforded the benefits of the geneva convention since iraq actually has a recognized government now. I don't think they belong in guantanamo anymore. they should be in iraqi prisons and tried in iraqi courts or extradited to wherever they came from for trials.

Britain has laws against inciting terrorism or violence, and some sorts of public speech which would have that motive are illegal. slippery slope that, i think freedom of speech is pretty important, i would rather it just be illegal to CARRY OUT acts of terrorism. perhaps if the speaker makes a clear and specific threat, maybe thats justifiable.

either way, as an american I feel a lot that since we are the focus of all this attention for some reason we get a pretty bad rap for the mistakes and dumb things we do, more than we might if we were some other country. this kind of crap happens all the time, where is all the disgust at russia for what they have done and are doing to chechnya? where is the pressure on china to give their people some democracy, or to free tibet? where is the outrage at iran for their clear threats against israel??
instead, everybody seems to be so focused, so paranoid about what the US will do next, so caught up in telling us to stay the hell out of their business.
i dunno, maybe that just all i hear because i'm not IN china or Iran, or russia.
I still feel like we really get the short end of the publicity stick tho...

china and russia are doing this too. so it can't be wrong!

please dont get upset about US politics. at least they arent doing anything so bad to their own citizens. although i also think they suck, i often also look back at them like they are my own saviours becase they and EU initiated and took actions on the former regime of slobodan milosevic and serbia-the country i now live in. situatiion isnt so much better now, but at least there are no cops to beat the crap out of me every day because i am a student....also i was born in sarajevo, i also think that war was over when USA and EU finally took some military actions...they didnt ocuppied bosnia, and they definitly didnt occupied serbia.
they did some pretty bad things in past and will definatly do in future but it isnt all black and white like you think.

Niko, most people in the US hate bush (his poll numbers are among the worst of any president) and we are doing all we can. Unfortunately there's not much we can do until the next election..

Why does it matter so much, what USA do in the human rights department? Well, because USA is a proper democracy. One that helped free and rebuild parts of Europe and Asia after WW2. That helped establishing democracies in Germany and Japan (and maybe others, dunno.) That's why. At least western world has much higher expectations from USA than from, say, Russia and China. Russia is a silly excuse of a democratic constitutional state and China doesn't even pretend to be that.

As such USA have much more responsibility for human rights world wide. Do you really want to be compared to Russia and China here? Imho, one really shouldn't look about the lower end, when one wants to highten the standards, world wide.

And, buhatkj, I mentioned it earlier: It is about credibility. Many countries just wait for the chance to say "Well, when they are allowed to do this, so can we." With what ethic justification can your president now claim moral superiority? Nothing much left in that department. Of course, overall, USA's standards are still much higher than China's and Russia's and others'.

But good guys get watched at much more. If before the court police got caught with unclean hands on preservation of evidence, the bad guy may walk away freely.

buhatkj, so I'd be much more worried, if no one cared anymore. The first signs of defeatism are clearly visible. (Even in your own post, reread it. ;) )

"And if so, what will they do? Nothing as usual?" The US is pretty much divided and either side is doing more than nothing.

I hope that you don't believe that all the Americans want to kill people and violate human rights. Even most of the military in Iraq is just trying to help that country. Really. They build schools, give food to people and protect them from the terrorists. Yes, the terrorists not only attack US troops, they also target and attack Iraqi civilians. Pretty much the same as the Colombian communist guerrillas did when I lived there. Maybe many Iraqis are grateful for the presence of US troops and what they did to Saddam. They can't talk tho because they would be obviously hated and attacked by the terrorists. I can't blame them , it happened the same thing in Colombia when I lived there.

On the other hand, no, we cannot ignore any human right violation or massacre. Any soldier that does that should be judged and some are right now. But again, not everything is bad. And about the cause of the Irak war, man I can't agree more with you. Many Americans (in the right and the left) knew that there were no WMDs but congress let the president do it anyways. The damage is done already and the only thing we can do is do is being positive. I seriously believe that Irak, in the long run, will be a better place thanks to the invasion.

there is a significant 3rd party political movement in the usa that believes we should return to a policy of isolationism. basically, if the world doesnt like the way we try to help. then let them be, let them deal with it themselves. withdraw from any international organizations like the UN or NATO that attempt to make policy for the world as a whole, and only deal with the outside world via heavily restricted trade.
this is the libertarian party.
much of the rest of their political platform appeals to me, but this isolationist bits has been hard for me to swallow. i thought we need to participate, but to use a light touch.
all the same, i read not more than a week ago about an international diplomatic dinner at which john howard, from austrailia encouraged bush to keep america involved in international politics and disputes. he said something like "the world needs an active and involved USA". so maybe there are those that would rather we didnt return to isolationism (like we were before WW1). more often though, we get a pretty cold shoulder, which is one of the reasons why this party has grown to become a legitimate political factor in the US. one of my co-workers is a member, and i vote for both them and others (i try to evaluate each candidate seperately, regardless of party affiliation).
as far as defeatism, yeh, it is in that post. americans who travel abroad tell people that they are canadian, just to avoid being hassled, the internet is rife with this abject hatred for everything we are, and everything we do, and within our own country, we are so far from united anymore that they should change the damn name of the place. so yeh, im a little defeatist. maybe being hated gets old eh? a lot of the news i read makes me so upset anymore i dunno whether to just stop reading it, or maybe to acknowledge the libertarians have a point.
really, has being involved in the UN, or trying to help in the mideast, or humanitarian involvement in africa, or asia or anything we have done like this helped US at all?? has it done anything other than drain our own economy and earn us hatred and mistrust from the very people we try to help? i find it hard to think of a single good thing that has come of it. so why do we do it? what's in it for us?

well, could be true, that the american government only tried to help the world. but all the critics are not about what they try to achieve but how the try. it's something like: "we have a democracy, we are great. so all the world will be great, when we spread democracy all over it. and if somebody doesn't want us to bring him democracy (following our rules), he's a terrorist." and even inside the us there are (as far as i know) very strange things going on. just think of the loss of privacy and so on. and the best comment i heard of it was from an american citizen: "well, we are at war! so that's okay..." in other words: "we defend our democracy by giving it up." don't know if democracy is like love...

go and watch the road to guantanamo :) maybe a propaganda movie but i think it's worth watching it
also intresting http://www.zeit.de/online/2006/22/Guantanamo

buhatkj, I see. I guess I can understand the grief, here.

Condemning USA across-the-board is plain stupid. At least in western world, I don't believe this will last long anyway. Perception is greatly depending on the administration. Because Bush&Co are in the news all the time, not "your average american family" Jack and Jane Johnson.

And don't expect everybody here to be ho&fro about Schroeder back then either. He was/is a loud-mouth and a poser. If public opinion dictated a different stance, he'd take it up without a second thought.

I didn't know liberterians were isolationists, didn't sound fitting. But then, an administration that must not do anything, shouldn't be allowed to interact with other countries either. ;)
Living in the obscenely over-regulated Germany, this survival-of-the-fittest theme of the liberterians is abhorent to me anyway. The freedom of a free fox in a free chicken house to say it with Roger Garaudy. :)

it should be nice to hear what niko has to say...movie?
did you watch it?

Wow.What can I say that has already been said?It stems from the perception that Bush stole the first election, in 2000.Let me tell you, as a person who lived in Florida, and now lives just 1 mile away from that state line,that Bush WON that election.How do I know? because, when the news people had come on stating that the Florida polls had closed, there was still 1 hour left in the NorthWest part of the state, a staunchly Republican part.Many who would have voted, have stated to me that they believed the news; that all Florida polls had closed.If the news had not been so giddy for a Democrat victory, and made that insipid announcement, Bush would have won Florida by thousands.....and not the few hundred he did.

And for the second election....there was a newspaper in england, the guardian, that tried to affect the outcome of OUR election, by telling thousands of people, by sending them letters, to vote Democrat, and not for Bush.

There are those who say they hate all Americans-----but have any of you ever actually met a real one?Not an actor, a model, a politician, or a New Yorker or a Californian.But from the rest of the country.Know why they seem to not care what happens in the world?I do.Because, between their work, kids, and other things that affect their lives....they just do not have the time.Know why they care not to learn another language?Because, with many of them, they go 400 miles in any direction.....the people there still speak English.Can't say that about too many places in the world.I can go from 60 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico to Chicago, Illinois----a trip comparable to Berlin to Nantes, France--- and still be in a one language place.


About our political parties------gonna put it in a perspective for the Germans here.

We have 2 main parties, Republican, and Democrat.There is also a third,Libertarian, but it's not exactly a major one----yet.
Differences between the three---

There is also a type of difference in `philosophies, with a clear middle ground, a clear left, and a clear right( what we originally meant by " left wing" and "right wing" is because our Senate and House of Representative buildings areboth divided by a central walk, and the democrats occupy the left side, and the republicans the right.this has now taken on a political meaning, with the left being closer to communism( i'll expound on this further later), and the right being closer to what it actually says in our constitution.)
Now, there are ultra-hardcore parts of both parties.the hub-bub you hear from the u.s. press is in part controlled by the ultra-hardcore part of the democrat party--- a part of that party that wants, amongst other things, socialised healthcare, more taxes, even on the poor,quashing of any public debate.sound like someone you know?
the ultra-hardcore part of the republican party is the part that considers christianity to be the law of the land,having government watch what you do, and other nasty things.

the libertarians claim to be " in the middle", wanting less government involvement in our daily lives, less taxes, and ability to have any religion you want.Good as that may sound, that's exactly what the more moderate parts of the Republican and democrat parties want, as well, which is a part of why they may never be a force in american politics----their message isn't that much different than the majority of the other guys, heh.

Now, I've heard that "bush wants to be emperor." bush knows this will never happen, he ain't that stupid.He actually has the most racially diverse advisors, called his " cabinent", in the history of american politics.(this can be found out, for yourself.)

Those of Us who live in the so-called " red states", the actual middle of america,have a distrust of too much government, hence, in the past 30 or so years, we have had a distrust of the democraic party----and hence why bush's numbers have went down.
Say what you want----it's because of this reason, it's because of that reason----but the fact that he has tried to expand government's role in our lives is the main reason.

I'll go for now....but if any want to talk to an average, intelligent, red-state living, tolerant, moderate republican american , just e-mail me.before the hurricanes come after me----like ivan, dennis and katrina did the past few years........

forgot my e-mail, heh sorry.

I'm also American. Please don't hate us, pity us. We are stuck with a twice illigitemate President (election fraud in Florida the first time, "anomalies" in Ohio the second time), 1/3 of the nation that believes that said President is divinely sent to save the nation from evil, an opposition party that couldn't put up a candidate who could beat a wet napkin, and a largely apathetic general population that believes that voting for "American Idol" is just as important if not more important than voting for President. I and others know what he is doing and know it is wrong. Heck, I voted for the Gore and then Kerry, not that voting matters any more over here.